"Once and for all, let it be said that Gagnon is an inaccurate and poor student of Biblical homosexuality: he is far too opinionated and self-indulging for someone who would have us believe in his impeccable judgement (whence my jibe at his status as an ayatollah), has no grasp whatsoever of the major ancient Near Eastern languages apart from Masoretic Hebrew, never consults scholarly literature in other tongues (German and French Bible studies simply do not exist for him), and he is ridiculously parochial in his selection of primary and secondary sources (they are principally American, and wherever possible come from the Evangelical right). Just consult any piece of his which appears on his website; you will discover that he is all rhetoric and blistering, with virtually nothing in guise of scientific apparatus. I would have been loathe to expose him for what he is had he been decent enough not to charge his opponents with gross dishonesty. So let us not mince words any longer."
- Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
Sunday
Saturday
Gagnon the Martyr
"The opening subtitle of Gagnon's (book) Introduction is "The Personal Risks Inherent in Writing Such a Book" outlines the great personal danger he is facing for entering this debate.
Such a claim is extremely unrealistic. Gay people don't persecute Christians except in the minds of those with a "persecution complex". Nobody has ever heard of gay parents throwing out their kids for being Christian, Christian teens are not committing suicide at unusually high rates, the boy-scouts don't ban Christian leaders, we do not hear of cake shops and B&B's denying business to Christian couples, gay cults don't picket the funerals of Christian soldiers, there is no alarming violence perpetrated on those who are perceived to be Christians in the streets, nor do people get fired from gay organisations if they're outed as Christian by a colleague ... You get my drift. "Persecution" is faced by the vulnerable in society, not by dominant ideological forces such as conservative Evangelicalism. Gagnon's "personal risk" is a fantasy. It is about as sympathetic, if slightly less melodrmatic, than Pauline Hanson's video tape recording: "if you are watching this, I have been murdered..."
As a male, heterosexually married, Christian author, Gagnon ought to be aware of his privilege, and write with some humility about it. Because he does not acknowledge it, and in fact maintains a delusion of persecution, his unrecognised privilege become a blind spot which will distort his interpretation of biblical texts."
- From critical-discipleship.blogspot.com
Such a claim is extremely unrealistic. Gay people don't persecute Christians except in the minds of those with a "persecution complex". Nobody has ever heard of gay parents throwing out their kids for being Christian, Christian teens are not committing suicide at unusually high rates, the boy-scouts don't ban Christian leaders, we do not hear of cake shops and B&B's denying business to Christian couples, gay cults don't picket the funerals of Christian soldiers, there is no alarming violence perpetrated on those who are perceived to be Christians in the streets, nor do people get fired from gay organisations if they're outed as Christian by a colleague ... You get my drift. "Persecution" is faced by the vulnerable in society, not by dominant ideological forces such as conservative Evangelicalism. Gagnon's "personal risk" is a fantasy. It is about as sympathetic, if slightly less melodrmatic, than Pauline Hanson's video tape recording: "if you are watching this, I have been murdered..."
As a male, heterosexually married, Christian author, Gagnon ought to be aware of his privilege, and write with some humility about it. Because he does not acknowledge it, and in fact maintains a delusion of persecution, his unrecognised privilege become a blind spot which will distort his interpretation of biblical texts."
- From critical-discipleship.blogspot.com
Tuesday
Sunshine Saints
Kathy Baldock, who I posted about previously did a great post about street evangelists. I usually don't post a second time on what I've already linked, but it's relevant during this gay pride month to hear what she says about these street preachers who you will find at most outside gay venues.
I remember when the Chick-fil-A debacle happened and Christians claiming to be 'persecuted' for what they believed supported the place in droves as an issue of freedom of religion and speech instead of seeing it for what it really was, as an organization that gives financial support to anti-gay marriage groups. There was no example of loving your neighbor as yourself as much as it was a "Let's stick it to the gays" (the real thrust behind the Chick-fil-A support). Some Christians went to the protest demonstrations outside the restaurants knowing their presense there would turn into not too pretty confrontations with gays and thier supporters. These same Christians would then post all over YOUTUBE the clashes they had with these protesting gays with; "See how gays are bullies and hate the Gospel?" Instead of admitting they went with the intent of adding fuel to the fire with baiting gays to react, they then played stupid with saying; "Well we didn't know we'd get the horrible reaction we did." What a sneaky low blow.
Street preachers (Not the screaming ones. I have yet to hear of a testimony where someone says' "I was saved by someone screaming at me on a street corner for my immorality" ) really believe they are taking the high road with talking personally to homosexuals on the street with what they think is a message of love, but if a message is bad, it doesn't matter if you say it from a bullhorn on the street corner or in a quiet voice one-on-one. When dealing with unbelievers, you have to be led by the Holy Spirit with a correct message otherwise it's your own message you are preaching and it will be error. When that happens confusion reigns and God is in no part in it. I dealt with Steve Sanchez on his blog and it was going well until he realized:
A. I was a homosexual who did believe the Gospel.
B. I was reaching out to him in loving kindness with pointing out his error instead of giving him the reactionary response he was expecting.
and
C. He wasn't looking very 'right' in our discussion.
Next thing I know, he deleted all my posting and I was left saying; "What just happened?"
Instead of taking what I said as food for thought, he just didn't want to hear it anymore because he's been doing what he's been doing for so long, he believes he CAN'T be wrong. You shouldn't take pride in throwing the Gospel in the face of others like it was a pail of ice water. The moving of the Holy Spirit on the heart is what brings conviction to Salvation, not arguments bringing shame and condemnation.
The saying; "Hell is paved with good intentions" really hits the mark with street preachers who's heart are the right place, but not knowing a knowing God is sitting this one out.
I remember when the Chick-fil-A debacle happened and Christians claiming to be 'persecuted' for what they believed supported the place in droves as an issue of freedom of religion and speech instead of seeing it for what it really was, as an organization that gives financial support to anti-gay marriage groups. There was no example of loving your neighbor as yourself as much as it was a "Let's stick it to the gays" (the real thrust behind the Chick-fil-A support). Some Christians went to the protest demonstrations outside the restaurants knowing their presense there would turn into not too pretty confrontations with gays and thier supporters. These same Christians would then post all over YOUTUBE the clashes they had with these protesting gays with; "See how gays are bullies and hate the Gospel?" Instead of admitting they went with the intent of adding fuel to the fire with baiting gays to react, they then played stupid with saying; "Well we didn't know we'd get the horrible reaction we did." What a sneaky low blow.
Street preachers (Not the screaming ones. I have yet to hear of a testimony where someone says' "I was saved by someone screaming at me on a street corner for my immorality" ) really believe they are taking the high road with talking personally to homosexuals on the street with what they think is a message of love, but if a message is bad, it doesn't matter if you say it from a bullhorn on the street corner or in a quiet voice one-on-one. When dealing with unbelievers, you have to be led by the Holy Spirit with a correct message otherwise it's your own message you are preaching and it will be error. When that happens confusion reigns and God is in no part in it. I dealt with Steve Sanchez on his blog and it was going well until he realized:
A. I was a homosexual who did believe the Gospel.
B. I was reaching out to him in loving kindness with pointing out his error instead of giving him the reactionary response he was expecting.
and
C. He wasn't looking very 'right' in our discussion.
Next thing I know, he deleted all my posting and I was left saying; "What just happened?"
Instead of taking what I said as food for thought, he just didn't want to hear it anymore because he's been doing what he's been doing for so long, he believes he CAN'T be wrong. You shouldn't take pride in throwing the Gospel in the face of others like it was a pail of ice water. The moving of the Holy Spirit on the heart is what brings conviction to Salvation, not arguments bringing shame and condemnation.
The saying; "Hell is paved with good intentions" really hits the mark with street preachers who's heart are the right place, but not knowing a knowing God is sitting this one out.
Thursday
Wednesday
Tuesday
A Tale of Two Priests
The book of Ecclesiastes says:
"There is a vanity which is done upon the earth; that there are just men, unto whom it happens according to the work of the wicked; again, there are wicked men, to whom it happens according to the work of the righteous: I said that this also is vanity."
Recently a priest came out with damning words for the Boy Scouts because of their acceptance of gay scouts. The words this priest spoke as a representative of a loving Christ was so repellent, so disgusting with what he had to say about gay youth in the scouts, it made other religious leaders say; "I have nothing to do with this one."
I looked closer at this supposed man of the moth eaten cloth and found these words from him; "I have a good life: food on the table often prepared by parishioners, decent health, fraternal love expressed openly by my parish family, bills paid, and in general a personal peace."
Now I happen to know another priest by the name of Reverend Jonathan Hagger. This priest in contrast has troubles paying his monthly bills and is spoken about as a heretic deserving of his fate with what was, or was not, a blessing of a same sex couple. I see a fury in him with the indignity shown me as a gay man by those in and out of the faith and it sits like a rotting trout in the man's spirit. It wouldn't have been out in left field if he did what he did for a gay couple under his church's nose.
Unlike the priest who thinks himself the better to Michael the archangel in bringing railing accusations with using the Boy Scouts as an excuse, the priest I know, the one who wonders how he'll pay his electric bill, reached out and took the hand that he saw as belonging to a brother in Christ, the hand of a gay man, and said come sup with me.
Tell me, who is the betterpriest good Samaritan man in the eyes of God with loving kindness?
How doth God know? And is there knowledge in the most High? Behold, these are the ungodly, who
prosper in the world; they increase in riches" (Psalm 73:11-14).
There is no pat answer why the evil prosper while in this world while the good get wallops that seem to go past chastisements to make us better Christians because there IS no real answer and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. It was kept from Job in his tortures when he asked (Job 12:6.) and it is kept from us until the day we don't see through what Paul says is tinted glass. Most people believe the ending given in the book of Ecclesiastes was a later addition not from the original author. They believed this because they refused to accept God would just leave the chapter without some kind of "glass half full" ending, SOMETHING that will give us the reason to human existence that seems without rhyme or reasoning.
"There is a vanity which is done upon the earth; that there are just men, unto whom it happens according to the work of the wicked; again, there are wicked men, to whom it happens according to the work of the righteous: I said that this also is vanity."
Recently a priest came out with damning words for the Boy Scouts because of their acceptance of gay scouts. The words this priest spoke as a representative of a loving Christ was so repellent, so disgusting with what he had to say about gay youth in the scouts, it made other religious leaders say; "I have nothing to do with this one."
I looked closer at this supposed man of the moth eaten cloth and found these words from him; "I have a good life: food on the table often prepared by parishioners, decent health, fraternal love expressed openly by my parish family, bills paid, and in general a personal peace."
Now I happen to know another priest by the name of Reverend Jonathan Hagger. This priest in contrast has troubles paying his monthly bills and is spoken about as a heretic deserving of his fate with what was, or was not, a blessing of a same sex couple. I see a fury in him with the indignity shown me as a gay man by those in and out of the faith and it sits like a rotting trout in the man's spirit. It wouldn't have been out in left field if he did what he did for a gay couple under his church's nose.
Unlike the priest who thinks himself the better to Michael the archangel in bringing railing accusations with using the Boy Scouts as an excuse, the priest I know, the one who wonders how he'll pay his electric bill, reached out and took the hand that he saw as belonging to a brother in Christ, the hand of a gay man, and said come sup with me.
Tell me, who is the better
How doth God know? And is there knowledge in the most High? Behold, these are the ungodly, who
prosper in the world; they increase in riches" (Psalm 73:11-14).
There is no pat answer why the evil prosper while in this world while the good get wallops that seem to go past chastisements to make us better Christians because there IS no real answer and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. It was kept from Job in his tortures when he asked (Job 12:6.) and it is kept from us until the day we don't see through what Paul says is tinted glass. Most people believe the ending given in the book of Ecclesiastes was a later addition not from the original author. They believed this because they refused to accept God would just leave the chapter without some kind of "glass half full" ending, SOMETHING that will give us the reason to human existence that seems without rhyme or reasoning.
Monday
Sunday
gay lite with half the calories
A few years back I got into it with a blogger for the Assemblies Of God church over the issue of gay Christians with the group Soulforce that were being booted off Christian school campuses. Out of the blue the blogger brought up a man's story who identified as an "ex-gay" and how he was "delivered" from homosexuality.
Now I've come across people like this before and at one time I was even a frequent poster at exgaywatch.com. I told the AoG blogger that if you look closely at the stories (like with the man he brought up) of these 'ex-gays,' you find a pattern of same-sex sexual abuse, forced same-sex prostitution and just horrible same-sex sexual experiences that led them to want to leave homosexuality. I questioned if many of these people were really even gay and by getting out of these damaging circumstances and getting over these traumas related to homosexuality, they went back to their true nature of heterosexuality (I don't see many heterosexual men and women running from being straight just because they've had bad opposite-sex experiences).
The big 3 who toot this "gays can change" line for the self loathing are Narth, considered the largest 'medical' organization touting the ex-gay myth with mental health quakes held over from the era when homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. Exodus International, the largest umbrella group for ex-gay ministries across the nation who's founder ran off with another man and renounced the organization and topping off the unholy ex-gay trinity is PFOX (a slap in the face to the friends and families gay affirming group PLAG), a group with a persecution complex who's president is a mother who resents her son being gay so much, she makes it her life mission to tell other parents it's O.K. if you don't accept your child's homosexuality and still love Jesus.
If you follow the money trails with these organizations you'll find they are funded by rabid anti-gay conservative groups like Focus on the Family who parade these supposed ex-gays out in the public to say; "See?! You aren't born gay and here's the proof. Now dance like a monkey for us you ex-gay freaks so everyone can see you!"
Recently it was big news when Exodus International reversed it's stance on gays "changing" that sent a blow to the whole ex-gay circus that followed various scandals of ex-gay leadership who couldn't stay on the opposite-sex love bandwagon, ex-gay groups getting caught twisting scientific data for their own agenda and the wackiness that is Richard Cohen. Even my favorite anti-gay theologian Robert Gagnon got in on the fray when he wrote that the president of Exodus International, Alan Chambers, step down (Gagnon's over the top piping made many realize what I've said all along, the man is unbalanced (read; Loopy) when it comes to the issue of homosexuality) that forced Exodus to give a public response.
In a way I feel sorry for these rare birds called "ex-gays." To me they are the walking damaged who believe that for God to love them, they have to hate a part of themselves that can love another.
Now I've come across people like this before and at one time I was even a frequent poster at exgaywatch.com. I told the AoG blogger that if you look closely at the stories (like with the man he brought up) of these 'ex-gays,' you find a pattern of same-sex sexual abuse, forced same-sex prostitution and just horrible same-sex sexual experiences that led them to want to leave homosexuality. I questioned if many of these people were really even gay and by getting out of these damaging circumstances and getting over these traumas related to homosexuality, they went back to their true nature of heterosexuality (I don't see many heterosexual men and women running from being straight just because they've had bad opposite-sex experiences).
The big 3 who toot this "gays can change" line for the self loathing are Narth, considered the largest 'medical' organization touting the ex-gay myth with mental health quakes held over from the era when homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. Exodus International, the largest umbrella group for ex-gay ministries across the nation who's founder ran off with another man and renounced the organization and topping off the unholy ex-gay trinity is PFOX (a slap in the face to the friends and families gay affirming group PLAG), a group with a persecution complex who's president is a mother who resents her son being gay so much, she makes it her life mission to tell other parents it's O.K. if you don't accept your child's homosexuality and still love Jesus.
If you follow the money trails with these organizations you'll find they are funded by rabid anti-gay conservative groups like Focus on the Family who parade these supposed ex-gays out in the public to say; "See?! You aren't born gay and here's the proof. Now dance like a monkey for us you ex-gay freaks so everyone can see you!"
Recently it was big news when Exodus International reversed it's stance on gays "changing" that sent a blow to the whole ex-gay circus that followed various scandals of ex-gay leadership who couldn't stay on the opposite-sex love bandwagon, ex-gay groups getting caught twisting scientific data for their own agenda and the wackiness that is Richard Cohen. Even my favorite anti-gay theologian Robert Gagnon got in on the fray when he wrote that the president of Exodus International, Alan Chambers, step down (Gagnon's over the top piping made many realize what I've said all along, the man is unbalanced (read; Loopy) when it comes to the issue of homosexuality) that forced Exodus to give a public response.
In a way I feel sorry for these rare birds called "ex-gays." To me they are the walking damaged who believe that for God to love them, they have to hate a part of themselves that can love another.
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